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Clan history at Culloden

 
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waterman



Joined: 29 Jun 2009
Posts: 11
Location: Watsonville,California

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:02 pm    Post subject: Clan history at Culloden Reply with quote

The new stone at Culloden got me wondering about the role of Clan MacTavish at Culloden.I believe that I have read that the Chief at the time was in jail and could not attend but am wondering if there is anymore information on who the Clan fought under and the Clans role in the battle.Forgive me if this information is on the website,I just haven't found it yet. Thanks,Reid


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SherryLThompson



Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 611
Location: New Hampshire, USA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reid

you are correct, our Chief was imprisoned at Dunbarton Castle, turned in by a Campbell. Our men fought largely with the Fraser of Lovat, this put them in the second wave that came across the field.

A book I found at Culloden "no Quarter Given" identifies some MacTavish and Thompsons as officers with other regiments but shows the most were with Fraser, and some survived that day but were captured soon after when the British combed the Highlands looking for the Prince and took or killed anyone they could find....

We felt them with us that day when we dedicated the stone.....they are finally remembered properly....



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Sherry Thompson
National Commissioner USA
Region 1 (Northeast) Commissioner

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass......
it's about learning to dance in the rain.
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waterman



Joined: 29 Jun 2009
Posts: 11
Location: Watsonville,California

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Sherry,very helpful.Good tip on the book as well.Great to meet you all at the Gathering.Hope they plan another soon!I'm homesick.


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SherryLThompson



Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 611
Location: New Hampshire, USA

PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Me too! We are already planning the next trip back, probably 2013, start saving up!



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Sherry Thompson
National Commissioner USA
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Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass......
it's about learning to dance in the rain.
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Patrick Thompson



Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 175
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:59 pm    Post subject: MacTavish/Thompsons in the Jacobite Army of Prince Charlie Reply with quote

I noted Sherry has the book No Quarter Given. In that there are Inverness (Fraser) MacTavishes listed. Beside that other Thompsons and MacTavishes are shown. These are generally in with the MacKintosh (MacIntosh). And for this reason: The MacIntosh had held MacTavish and Thompsons as sept, since Culloden. In 1991 Chief-designate Dugald MacTavish approached Chief Kenneth MacIntosh of MacIntosh (33rd), thru the MacKintosh Commissioner, Russell A. Macintosh, and inquired about our names on the MacKinstosh list. Via correspondence with Chief Dugald, Chief Kenneth, removed our names from the MacKintosh sept list. This however was short lived, for Chief Kenneth MacKintosh died in 1995.

The reason it seems that Thomsons and MacTavishes were included on the MacKintosh Sept list, is that some of the MacTavish kin who fought in the ranks of MacKintosh, settled on MacKintosh land rather than returning to Knapdale, Cowall, and Kintyre. However the names were once officially removed from the MacKintosh list in 1991. We do know, however, that there were a few MacTavish and Thompson kin living on MacKintosh lands even before Culloden, and some of these were also likely in with the MacKintosh during the rebellion of 1745.

Many in the ranks of MacKintosh were slain at Culloden. They took a heavy loss.

Although the muster roll has been updated, it is clear that there are many names missing from the list judging by the number given. It is of course most difficult to account for every individual involved, because circumstances as well as the nature of the Highlanders to drift in and out of the service, was customary. So the list 'in total' will never be a true list.

Also the MacLeans fought in Charlie's Army, and who were the Hereditary Standard Bearers of Maclean of Kingairloch, but a family of MacTavishes. (Just wondering how many knew this?) Such a family held lands under a term called serjeanty, from which the rank of Sergeant comes. The Standard Bearer carried the Standard (flag) of his designate Laird into battle. The Standard Bearer was also armed, and if his Laird was under attach, he would plant the banner in the ground and defend his laird. If the Standard Bearer was slain, one of his armed kin (a family member) would then take his place.

These are reasons why there are tales of people being in the Jacobite Ranks, without being formally registered on any Muster Roll. They came and went, mostly as they saw fit to do at a personal level (except Standard Bearers). This kind of drifting in and out of Charlie's Army is linked to nearly every Highland (and Lowland) clan or family in Jacobite participation.

Hope this helps in understanding.

Patrick Thompson
Seannachie


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waterman



Joined: 29 Jun 2009
Posts: 11
Location: Watsonville,California

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Patrick,as you know,all of the pieces put together help to paint a more complete picture.


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SherryLThompson



Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 611
Location: New Hampshire, USA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also recently found a reference book entitled "Scots Banished to American Plantations" which includes colonial America as well as the british west indies, on page 217 are listed about 20 or so Thompsons, I had this print out with me at the Gathering. If you belong to Ancestry.com the info is available there.......so interesting to put some real names to the history we read about.....many of these folks were captured at Carlisle, but also lists one woman who was sent from prison for murdering her children.....like most scottish families we have some scoundrels in our past eh? I believe I spoke to a few at Cruach.....



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Sherry Thompson
National Commissioner USA
Region 1 (Northeast) Commissioner

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass......
it's about learning to dance in the rain.
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waterman



Joined: 29 Jun 2009
Posts: 11
Location: Watsonville,California

PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Sherry,I love the book ideas that you are sending my way.I was thinking about it and certainly don't want to give anyone more to do than what is already on their plate but was thinking how nice it would be to begin an informal list of suggested readings for members who have interest.


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SherryLThompson



Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 611
Location: New Hampshire, USA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, it's not work, it's what we love! Not sure if you have seen Patrick's site:


http://mysite.verizon.net/resrz8zf/clanmactavishseannachie/index.html


And I think he has a book list there.....



_________________
Sherry Thompson
National Commissioner USA
Region 1 (Northeast) Commissioner

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass......
it's about learning to dance in the rain.
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waterman



Joined: 29 Jun 2009
Posts: 11
Location: Watsonville,California

PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

good,good,good.I didn't see the book list before,I'll go back and check it out.Many thanks.


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